Playing Certain Characters

[Jaden West]

Hey Everyone!

Okay, I was chatting about this with someone over Skype and I wanted to talk about this with everyone here. And I hope the person I discuss this with doesn't take it the wrong way. I you. Anyways, there are certain characters that some people will not play because they feel like they can't play them because it's not them in real life. And I just want to say, don't think that way. As you write and develop characters, yeah sure, you feel that they're a part of you. And they are, I'm not saying they're not. But, just because I play Jaden West (a good example of horrible) doesn't mean I'm anything like her in real life. I just want others not to shy away and not give these baddies a chance. They can be fun to write and develop, though I take frequent breaks from writing Jaden and run to my greys (love my greys ) and then hope back onto her when I have the muse to write her. Anyways, just thought I'd share this! You may add or subtract whatever posted here, let's have a discussion!

Madz

 

[Ignotus Pratt]

What kind of characters do you mean?

 

[Jaden West]

I used Jaden an example and Link Black is another.
You know the mean spirited ones, and I'm sure there are other examples.

 

[Ainsley Lynch]

I do know what you mean Madz, I've struggled a lot with mean characters myself. It's strange, because when writing by myself, or RPing one on one, I don't have any issue being the villain, but on a more open RP setting like HNZ I get this irrational worry that people will think I'm living out some kind of bully fantasy. I usually wind up trying to write my mean characters posts in a way that makes it clear that I'm condemning their actions OOC, but that just takes away from the impact a bit, and makes the character feel weaker. I know it's a silly thing to worry about, and I've been trying to push myself more to write meaner characters, now that (hopefully) most people on the site know I'm not like that OOC, but I do think this is a thing many people struggle with, and an interesting thing to discuss OOC.

I'm really curious about other people's perspective on writing meaner characters, and if anyone has any tips on how to feel more comfortable. For me, motivation really helps. Knowing a character's reasons for acting the way they're acting and trying to think the situation through from that perspective helps me feel like they're behaving in a more natural way, even if I don't agree with the behaviour, if that makes sense.

 

[Rama Mowry]

I personally have a hard time playing mean characters because I do not want the person I am threading with to think that it is me taking out my aggression against them, which is completely not the case. But I do have Rama, who does a lot of mean things, but I still consider her a nice character of mine. (Although she is not the nicest)

I recently was teaching about the good/bad binary in a class in regards to racism. It is essentially associating certain behaviors as being good or bad and applying good/bad to people based off of those behaviors. However, with racism specifically, people can make mistakes and it's important to not label them as a bad person because of a mistake they have made.

I feel like sometimes we apply this to people on the site based off of the type of "good" or "bad" characters they tend to have. When I first joined, I was scared to thread with some people because of that, but I realized that just because someone is more comfortable with certain types of characters does not mean that they are that way in real life. I think that thinking about the good/bad binary is a good way to hold yourself accountable to yourself and your character.

 

[Charlotte Owens]

I'm glad that this is being discussed because there are so many different types of personalities that eventually everyone is going to have at least one character that does mean things, and it's important to know that just because your character might be doing these things, that does not mean this is a reflection of yourself.

This might sound a bit weird, but I like to think when I am RPing with a character that they are essentially telling me what they would do in that situation. Sometimes when I RP characters they unintentionally become a little bit meaner than what I expected, and a good example of that is my character Anastasie. I never initially meant for her to be mean in any way, but sometimes when we're RPing characters and developing them, they steer in different directions, and that's what I love about it. To have a bunch of characters that are all nice and are all essentially the same is definitely not a good way to write. It is good to have some variety in your character's personalities so they aren't all Mary Sues.

If anyone is experiencing any sort of hesitation with RPing with a mean character, not only would it be a good idea to RP with them more to learn more about them, but it would also be a good idea to write a list of positive and negative traits that they have. Maybe focusing more on the positive traits may help you realise that they aren't so bad after all, despite everything mean about them. When making characters it's also important that they have both a balance of negative and positive traits, and it's good to try to get into the mindset of your character to see from their point of view why they might be reacting the way they react to certain situations.

This is just my input and may not work for everyone, but I do strongly agree with making mean characters as it can really help your RPing skills and differentiate your character's personalities.

 

[Elliot Briar]

I think for more, it's always about a believable motivator. Someone's actions may be bad or mean etc, but the motivations behind it are important to making those actions believable or at least understandable. As Rowan said though, I always struggle with wanting to condemn those motivations or behavioral responses to make sure people are aware I'm not like that OOC.

Maybe the secret is just encouraging clear communication OOC with other RPers so you feel more confident that folks know what you're exploring IC is not your values OOC, and that we're all friends having fun exploring topics in fiction.
Now the real review of character comes out when everyone plays Werewolf...

 

[Chante Harvelle-Ateara]

You guys worded this so much better than I did on my original post.
But, yes my point(s?) is that some won't try to roleplay someone as mean spirited as Jaden. Some won't interact with her because she is cruel as heck. I just think even the worst (all) kinds need to be explored. Doesn't even have to be to such a tense degree, their personality can vary in many ways.
Jaden, however, is pretty much black and white. I am doing a topic with Mia, and I keep telling her 'WOW, I really want to kill Jaden' because she being so awful to Willow. Mia knows me OOC and knows I'm nothing like Jaden (maybe I'm a butt sometimes ). She knows me OOC so I have a bit more freedom to explore Jaden's awfulness. Sometimes, it's just separating the character from their writer. When I'm playing different characters I try to live in their headspace, separate them from my own.

 

[Lillian Sword]

I really enjoy writing awful characters, but I also struggle with them on HNZ. There's often a level to it for me of not being confident that I can pull off the specific angle that I'm going for - not just that I don't want to condone their actions, but that I'm not sure I can write realistic reactions in that direction because it would never occur to me to be like that IRL. But I think that HNZ is a really good safe space for practicing things you wouldn't usually write (for instance, I'm using it a lot to hone my romance-writing skills).

Motivation is definitely important, and I think it's important too to remember that while the HP canon draws a very clear distinction between Good and Evil as archetypal things, real people aren't like that. When you're writing a character from inside their head rather than viewing their actions from a separate MC's point of view, they're not going to think of themselves as evil, they'll have their own justifications for what they're doing (and maybe they'll realise that they're not great justifications, and that's interesting too).

 

[Ignotus Pratt]

I used Jaden an example and Link Black is another.
You know the mean spirited ones, and I'm sure there are other examples.

Ok I just wanted to make sure that's what I was getting. I don't have a problem playing "mean" characters because ethics and morals are subjective to each particular person (or character in this instance). I do believe, however, that it has to make sense with that particular character's upbringing and social surroundings. It wouldn't make sense for this perfect lovely person who never really dealt with anything outside of a scraped knee become the next Voldemort, yknow? Unless of course they went on a path towards that through experiences and being taught some unsavoury things. I believe one's personality and their code of ethics has to make sense and if someone thinks that I am my characters then they are reading far to into this. We're all just human people sitting at computer pretending to be wizards - none of this is real.

 

[Monty Pendleton]

I love this thread because I once completely reformed a character of mine after I became afraid that the way I was writing him was reflecting badly on myself and I had no idea so many people felt similarly!!

Which is silly because I've never ever thought that about anybody else who RPs mean characters hahaha.

There have been occasions in the past where someone's character has said or thought something mean about mine, and I've briefly been upset and wondered if the RPer hates my characters, but these days I kind of go into RPs expecting other people's characters to dislike mine, because they are super annoying sometimes

Communication is key! And also just reminding yourself that your characters are amazing, and the parts of them that make other characters dislike them are the parts that make them interesting to read

I'm really curious about other people's perspective on writing meaner characters, and if anyone has any tips on how to feel more comfortable. For me, motivation really helps.

Yass to motivation - also what I've found helps is to make it about your character, not theirs, and try to highlight their insecurities. It's the difference between:

Bob smirked at Lisa. She was so pathetic. What kind of teenager still slept with a stuffed bear?

And:

Bob smirked at Lisa. He wouldn't have been seen dead with a stuffed bear - not at his age.

Both work, but the second one reveals something about your character! (In this case, Bob would be embarrassed to be thought of as someone who slept with a bear)

 

[Katherine Alicastell]

I struggle with nice characters

 

[Chante Harvelle-Ateara]

Ok I just wanted to make sure that's what I was getting. I don't have a problem playing "mean" characters because ethics and morals are subjective to each particular person (or character in this instance). I do believe, however, that it has to make sense with that particular character's upbringing and social surroundings. It wouldn't make sense for this perfect lovely person who never really dealt with anything outside of a scraped knee become the next Voldemort, yknow? Unless of course they went on a path towards that through experiences and being taught some unsavoury things. I believe one's personality and their code of ethics has to make sense and if someone thinks that I am my characters then they are reading far to into this. We're all just human people sitting at computer pretending to be wizards - none of this is real.

if someone thinks that I am my characters then they are reading far to into this

That's the thing tho! Some people can't separate fiction from reality. Kinda like when actors/actress that play villains on a series/film and they get hate from fans. Ex. Allison Argent and Theo Raeken from Teen Wolf. I just be like, why are people like this???? It's just a fictional character in a fictional world. Yes, you can love or hate them, but the actress/actor don't deserve the hate. Hope I'm making sense.

 

[Amber Chou Wilson]

Ah man I have a lot of thoughts on this subject.

First, I want to say that it's not weird to feel strange about writing mean characters. It's a very natural response to writing certain behavior, and I completely get the urge to add a little OOC note to apologize. Especially if the person you are RPing with isn't someone you have interacted with a lot in the past.
That said, I do hope people embrace this more, because its a lot of fun. My biggest tip is motivation, which is something that's been said a lot already, but I also have two other things I'd like to keep in mind when writing mean characters. One is that I feel like you have to keep your character's age in mind. 'Mean' for an 11 year old is very different than 'mean' for a 17 year old, and even more so when you have older or younger characters outside of Hogwarts. Motivation has a lot to do with that as well. What makes a young child act out that way? What makes someone older do that?

To add to that, there are a lot of different kinds of mean. Is your character verbally sarcastic in a way that could be mean? Purposely cruel? Manipulative? Is it because they enjoy it or because they simply put themselves first? Are they that way to everyone? Those are all things I like to keep in mind.

My second tip is to have some sort of 'arc' or growth in mind for your character. I'm not saying they all have to redeem themselves, definitely not. But this ties in with what I said earlier about age. I feel like as the character ages, their behavior would change over time. It could become better, worse, or stay just as mean but simply different.

For example. I had Odette start out as a mean kid, she was manipulative and sneaky and bullied others. She was acting this way because of her background and influences in her life, and it worsened for a time when she found out bad things about her family that affected her. But when she got a more stable environment, she mellowed out a lot. She can still be a bit sharp, but definitely doesn't go out of her way to hurt people anymore. Tristan is the opposite. He was a fairly generic nice kid, though always ambitious. As a muggleborn at Hogwarts he felt pressured to fit in, and then started to feel pressured to be the best. On top of that, he wanted a really specific kind of social reputation, which caused him to hurt others (Vivian) because he chose for selfish things. His ambition and arrogance is only growing with age, so he's definitely getting worse.

And for an example of someone staying about the same but different I have Diana Holland, who is still as mean as she was at 11 but is definitely changing her tactics to a more 'teen' style of being a bully.

(I also feel like it's important to know limits on what a certain character would do. Diana would insult someone, but wouldn't punch them in the face)

This is all stuff I've struggled with in the past, but am now pretty confident in. I don't think anyone thinks I'm actually like any of my mean characters. That said, having Eric has made these feelings come back up to the surface again. He's much more physical than any other character I've had, and that can be tricky. So this thread came at a good time for me I'm still finding my way with writing him, and I definitely think talking to people you're going to RP with beforehand is a good way to help with this too, even if it takes away some of the spontaneity of the thread.

 

[Leda Layton]

Ive had a few mean characters in the past, those who act out because of their background or peoplelike Leda who are sometimes just unaware how it comes across. I find it fun because it breaks away from my other nicer characters, however I find my problem is while I start out mean, mine usually tend to accidentally reform themselves For example I have Arlo Carson (excuse the fact hes just sent to prison) who started out incredibly selfish and violent but still early on gave in to help another character which is totally unlike him. Im not sure why I struggle not to change them a bit although I have to admit I love personal development. Similarly Isaac Kain was meant to be my evil character, but he ended up just being a bit shy and a bit of a bully as opposed to actually as mean as he was meant to be when I made him.

So yeah, I do love rping mean characters and it definitely helps as Kris said to make sure you have a good motivator, but I struggle to keep them mean for very long

Fun fact, Geo was meant to be ruthless (and androgenous) when I created her

 

[Katherine Alicastell]

Joking aside I'm a really big fan of this discussion and I wouldn't mind seeing more like it. It goes to show just how many other people feel similarly to you about certain aspects of roleplaying and character building, especially when you feel you may be the only one struggling with these thoughts and opinions.

While I don't necessarily struggle with mean characters often, I do have a tendency to reign them back because I don't want other people to take offence to them, and there's an ingrained desire to want to have likeable characters even though some of them are meant to be terrible people, all because I might care a lot about what other people might think and if they'll take something the wrong way, and that worry can impact having a diverse set of characters

 

[Verity Lancaster]

I realise this discussion has been tabled for a time, but I wasn't around when this was going on, and having been away from the site for more than a year, I do have a couple of thoughts on this - please bear with.

Something I noticed in my time away, and this may not be obvious to a lot of you, is that writing takes up a lot more free time than you would think. I used to be on HNZ 24/7 essentially, mostly just developing my characters in ways I never expected. I'm somewhat of a planner too, I like to know what situations I'm going to be putting my characters in far before I ever put pen to paper, so to speak, which means quite a lot of development happens behind the scenes. Now, this can be difficult for two reasons, one: you don't provide a lot of context as to the nature and context with which your character is drawing on these traits, or elements of their personality and two: you've got a fully formed ideal of a character that you want to explore, but little area to do so with as you've fleshed them out beyond what people can see. Now I'm not saying this is a bad idea at all, just that it can make people jump to certain assumptions because they can't see, or haven't seen what has happened to this particular character whilst they've been unseen - a good example of this is Zennon Baros, who's had three years of character development I've missed out on, which should essentially make him a different person than he was as a first and second year, but shouldn't be too drastic of a change to make him unrecognisable since everything that happened to him offboard is relevant. This is to say you can develop your character how you want, absolutely, but it should be a natural progression if you want to keep inline with future specifics. It can of course be a struggle, but you get there in the end.

As someone who spent a large amount of her time writing whilst I was away, I honestly forgot how hard it was to develop a character around other people - so when I've been thrown a curveball that wasn't originally within my comfortably established parameters (re. Felix and Lanithro suddenly being a thing) there was a lot of push back, I mean, a lot, Kait can attest to my self hatred here. But that doesn't mean its out for the count.

I have quite a few characters who are mean in different ways - Carter is very d!ckish when drunk for example and doesn't often feel accountable for his actions when he is. Verity, though she would definitely be labelled as a "sweet heart" has an underlying mean streak that comes from analysing and reading people well and understanding how to callously rip someone to shreds. But I never really thought about the way it would come across on the board or how others would perceive it until I came back. You see, as a writer, I basically have free reign to do as I choose with my characters, and, in many ways, a lot more freedom to develop them how I want. Coming in and having a character be cruel or mean, in essence, makes me want to apologise immediately, and I am generally in the habit of consistently messaging people I rp with regularly to check their reaction to a post I've made again re: Kait. Which I supposed could effectively ruin the dynamic, but is mostly my way of ensuring there's no hard feelings.

Being back has been an eye opener for me in regards to creating and maintaining characters and, whilst initially I am struggling with the amount of change currently sweeping my characters, I am also pleased about not having to maintain that level of creativity with everyone.

TLDR: this went off topic pretty quickly, but, don't be afraid to flex your creative juices in a while, as every character on HNZ is a piece of art. They say it takes a village to raise a child, well, it also takes a community to raise a character

 

[Danielle Gates]

Reading this is helpful for me. I remember making my first mean one, Talitha Courage. The reason she went inactive because I feel insecure I made her too mean in my mind and I have lots of normal, nice characters. Now, she is back and I am planning to mellow her out since she moved to Ilvermorny already. Another character I made to be mean and rude is Baron Corelli but seems like he is working progress since he kinda changed when he met Jenna Toubia. I also planned Danielle Corelli to be a mess but did not happen because I don't know if I can easily make her go back to who she was.

 

[Chante Harvelle-Ateara]

Reading this is helpful for me. I remember making my first mean one, Talitha Courage. The reason she went inactive because I feel insecure I made her too mean in my mind and I have lots of normal, nice characters. Now, she is back and I am planning to mellow her out since she moved to Ilvermorny already. Another character I made to be mean and rude is Baron Corelli but seems like he is working progress since he kinda changed when he met Jenna Toubia. I also planned Danielle Corelli to be a mess but did not happen because I don't know if I can easily make her go back to who she was.

Lovely input you two!

Arle: It's funny how you say that about Baron, when Jenna is the one becoming a little obsessive and a little cruel. She at the moment egging Diana and Shane on to get revenge on two other individuals. I don't know what's happening there, but I like to see where it goes.

Though Baron may be sweet on Jenna, he could be different to others. With that I just say don't think what you will do as Baron. Think what Baron will do as Baron.

 

[Amy Rosemary]

Well, I seemed to have missed this thread as well. But having read through what everyone has said, it did make me reflect on the reasons behind me worrying about if the people I rp with believe that I am similar to the mean characters I create. Forgive the possibly-emotional vibe this post may have, but I don’t usually say stuff like this, opting to shy away from it instead

For a long time OOC (and I mean, literal years) I struggled with being afraid of being judged for what I do or say. This has made me deeply insecure for that time and from then I barely dared to speak what was truly on my mind. When I joined, hardly knowing anyone like a newbie to the site does, the thought of creating mean characters hadn’t even crossed my mind. I got carried away with creating characters here and there, but my first mean character (or supposed to be mean anyway), was Athena, my current sixth year Slytherin. She wasn’t a nice kid from the start, even if she had a good upbringing but she was spoiled. As she got older she realised that being the centre of attention and being popular wasn’t all that important so she matured and is now nicer, though she still has a tendency to seek attention if she feels ignored. I didn’t mean for her to turn out so nice after all, but it might have partly to do with me being inactive for a few ic years, and thus forgetting some plots I had planned Like Pheeb, I do have a tendency to make my meaner characters as nice as my nicest ones, eventually, or come up with an excuse or plot to allow this to happen.

Something I have always disliked about myself is this insecure flaw of wanting other people’s approval, even when I know that they know who I am as a person. I know it has been mentioned a few times already, but communication really helps. If you, like me, are a sensitive person and you think you would get offended or upset by someone else’s character, just talk to the rper (OOC) and let them know what you’re thinking/how you’re feeling. It’s always a good place to start. That way, you both find some sort of middle ground and are on the same page.

I struggle with my mean characters less and less the more I practice and develop them. Then my confidence with each character and thread grows. And some of them are in between good/bad, for example, my character Chloe Chan. I haven’t had many plots with Chloe yet, however I think she has a good balance of good and bad traits - no spoilers yet though. And to me, the ‘bad’ traits of a character are their flaws, and everyone, even in real life, has flaws or insecurities. But that doesn’t mean that they don’t also have a good side to them and as I mentioned before, as a person who used to struggle with worrying about being judged harshly by others, I highly recommend not relating a character’s actions to the RPer directly. It is a family friendly site after all.

And that’s why we play games and have OOC discussions, am I right or am I right? Plus, I have yet to meet anyone on the site who isn’t nice and lovely and not up for rping. You’re all amazing

 

[Alexia Mckenna]

I realise this discussion has been tabled for a time, but I wasn't around when this was going on, and having been away from the site for more than a year, I do have a couple of thoughts on this - please bear with.

Something I noticed in my time away, and this may not be obvious to a lot of you, is that writing takes up a lot more free time than you would think. I used to be on HNZ 24/7 essentially, mostly just developing my characters in ways I never expected. I'm somewhat of a planner too, I like to know what situations I'm going to be putting my characters in far before I ever put pen to paper, so to speak, which means quite a lot of development happens behind the scenes. Now, this can be difficult for two reasons, one: you don't provide a lot of context as to the nature and context with which your character is drawing on these traits, or elements of their personality and two: you've got a fully formed ideal of a character that you want to explore, but little area to do so with as you've fleshed them out beyond what people can see. Now I'm not saying this is a bad idea at all, just that it can make people jump to certain assumptions because they can't see, or haven't seen what has happened to this particular character whilst they've been unseen - a good example of this is Zennon Baros, who's had three years of character development I've missed out on, which should essentially make him a different person than he was as a first and second year, but shouldn't be too drastic of a change to make him unrecognisable since everything that happened to him offboard is relevant. This is to say you can develop your character how you want, absolutely, but it should be a natural progression if you want to keep inline with future specifics. It can of course be a struggle, but you get there in the end.

As someone who spent a large amount of her time writing whilst I was away, I honestly forgot how hard it was to develop a character around other people - so when I've been thrown a curveball that wasn't originally within my comfortably established parameters (re. Felix and Lanithro suddenly being a thing) there was a lot of push back, I mean, a lot, Kait can attest to my self hatred here. But that doesn't mean its out for the count.

I have quite a few characters who are mean in different ways - Carter is very d!ckish when drunk for example and doesn't often feel accountable for his actions when he is. Verity, though she would definitely be labelled as a "sweet heart" has an underlying mean streak that comes from analysing and reading people well and understanding how to callously rip someone to shreds. But I never really thought about the way it would come across on the board or how others would perceive it until I came back. You see, as a writer, I basically have free reign to do as I choose with my characters, and, in many ways, a lot more freedom to develop them how I want. Coming in and having a character be cruel or mean, in essence, makes me want to apologise immediately, and I am generally in the habit of consistently messaging people I rp with regularly to check their reaction to a post I've made again re: Kait. Which I supposed could effectively ruin the dynamic, but is mostly my way of ensuring there's no hard feelings.

Being back has been an eye opener for me in regards to creating and maintaining characters and, whilst initially I am struggling with the amount of change currently sweeping my characters, I am also pleased about not having to maintain that level of creativity with everyone.

TLDR: this went off topic pretty quickly, but, don't be afraid to flex your creative juices in a while, as every character on HNZ is a piece of art. They say it takes a village to raise a child, well, it also takes a community to raise a character

Just as an addition to this I think it's fair to say that having a mean character for the sake of having a mean character isn't really an issue. What is an issue is how you choose to utilise it or how you choose to use that character and why they needed to be mean. There's no real point in a character being mean just because you want them to be and I've certainly got a few characters who've turned out completely opposite to how they were initially created, but for the most part, I think we are all fairly aware that we're generally nice people, and we aren't just being mean for the heck of it. In that vain, if you don't know, just reach out. There's no rule saying you can't have a lil quick chat OOC or in PM. Heavens, I've done this a number of times, both recently AND back in the day, though, as I get more comfortable with rping I generally find this unnesseccary to do as I am guilty of keeping the same rp partners and not branching out nearly enough. These people know me so I don't generally have to explain an action or thought that come from some background issue in the characters lives. Always happy to do so however. I'm terrible at making bios, but I have all the information in my head, down to character allergy and which parent is their fave.