Quidditch Suggestion

[Amber Chou Wilson]

Hi all,

I've been thinking a bit about the Quidditch system on site and wanted to write this suggestion. Quidditch is a ton of fun and something I always look forward to on HNZ but I've lately noticed something about playing as a chaser that feels a bit off, and I've been thinking about how to maybe fix it a little, if it's an issue for others as well.

I noticed that as a chaser, I go through the same motions a lot. Team A gets the quaffle, then posts an hour later to score. Team B gets the quaffle, then posts an hour later to score. And while I personally would like to vary a bit more with it (pass the quaffle, maybe even drop it etc) for the game outcome it doesn't really make a lot of sense to do that. So I was thinking of a small thing that could make playing chaser a bit more dynamic.

What I came up with was shortening the time before you can steal. It's now at 4 hours, which is long. It kind of kills the chaser (and keeper) momentum at times and makes it harder for those in those positions to post when the games are shorter, it also ensures no one usually steals the quaffle in a game from the opposite team because within 4 hours the other player has probably had time to post in the game. I feel like even making it half as long (so 2 hours) could add a bit of dynamic to the games and a bit more urgency to playing chaser. Especially considering the games don't usually last longer than a day or two because everyone is posting so actively (which is great).

This isn't an attack on the current system, which I think is fine, but I do think it would add a bit of urgency and maybe more fun RP dynamics to the games.

 

[Cyndi Kingsley]

Hi Daphne,

Thank you for your suggestion.

While we can understand the concerns regarding the length of time allowed for actions to be long and wanting to shorten them, there are a few reasons why we have that specific time frame in place. The biggest reason is to account for the varied time zones that OOC individuals across the various teams reside in. While we have no way of knowing when the snitch might be captured, we can, at least, allow players the ability to participate with the time limits that are in place. We had to create some way to balance that the game will always begin with some players about to head off to bed/work/school etc. There's really no way to avoid it with so many people playing in a game of quidditch!

If the average work/school day or sleep schedule is around 8 hours, the 4 hour rule means they have a much greater chance to participate than if the rule was lowered to 2 hours as you suggest (or even 3 hours). The 4 hour rule allows a player to get some RL responsibilities completed and still have the ability to come back and keep playing, if they are in possession of the quaffle or in another role. 2 hours would mean very little time for someone to step away from the game, and as we always do say on HNZ: real life comes first.

But that doesn't mean that we don't encourage passing when it's necessary to account for someone stepping away or to help with other players being able to post. We also encourage passing and using the 'other action' button for all roles because it allows you to roleplay your character's actions and increases their development both as a quidditch player and character, which should be just as important as winning. If your character is aggressive, making constant attempts to steal the quaffle would make total sense and add to gameplay! Similarly, if your character is having a bad day, maybe they drop a quaffle, maybe they hit themselves with their beater's bat, or maybe they bang into the hoops in an attempt to defend them! Much as we state with professors who teach lessons, you should roleplay in the role as your character would and use the game as a way to show the reader a bit about your character.

Your suggestion has opened up a broader conversation for us about some changes we'd like to make to game play. It's unfortunately way too early for me to provide any additional details, however, as they require some additional thought on our end as well as Nick having time to implement them into the current system. So, when/if we are able to implement any additional changes to enhance gameplay, we'll let you all know!

Thank you!

 

[Ainsley Lynch]

Ohhh, I'm going to piggyback on this thread if there are discussions going on about changes to the system, since now's probably the best time there's gonna be to suggest this.

I've played Beater quite a few times, and one thing I've always thought would be quite fun is if there was a second option for Beaters, to choose a player to defend instead of hit, and lower that player's chance of being hit by a bludger from the other team. That way Beaters could choose a strategy between offensively going after the other team vs. defensively defending their own team. It could make the role more dynamic, and take away the element of gameplay where Beaters tend to just relentlessly hammer the Seeker until they go down.

I have no idea how feasible this would be to implement on the back end, but since discussions are being had I figured I may as well throw it out there!

 

[Flynn North-McGowan]

I also have my own ideas if you don't mind me sliding in if we are having this discussion BUUUT moving the conversation back to the chasers, maybe we could add new actions instead of the generic 'other action'. Maybe you could add a 'pass' button and select the player you want to pass to, just like the beater system. Or a 'steal' button as well you could use instead of just waiting for the '4 hours pass and then automatically steal' option which could be more fun, add more chaos and make it a lot more interesting to play and to watch as well.

Again, as above, not sure how easy it would be to implement those things, but it would be great if you could because I think it would make matches a lot more dynamic.

 

[Amber Chou Wilson]

Thanks for the clear answer!

But that doesn't mean that we don't encourage passing when it's necessary to account for someone stepping away or to help with other players being able to post. We also encourage passing and using the 'other action' button for all roles because it allows you to roleplay your character's actions and increases their development both as a quidditch player and character, which should be just as important as winning. If your character is aggressive, making constant attempts to steal the quaffle would make total sense and add to gameplay! Similarly, if your character is having a bad day, maybe they drop a quaffle, maybe they hit themselves with their beater's bat, or maybe they bang into the hoops in an attempt to defend them! Much as we state with professors who teach lessons, you should roleplay in the role as your character would and use the game as a way to show the reader a bit about your character.

Yeah I understand this but at least personally I find it really hard to get out of the 'winning above rping' mentality, partly because its a team effort and I feel like I'd be letting others down if I didn't try to maximize win chances, if that makes sense? But that could just be a me problem.

 

[Monty Pendleton]

Yeah I understand this but at least personally I find it really hard to get out of the 'winning above rping' mentality, partly because its a team effort and I feel like I'd be letting others down if I didn't try to maximize win chances, if that makes sense? But that could just be a me problem.

I just want to chime in here because, though I fully understand where you're coming from, I don't think it's the right way to look at it! If all you do is try to maximise your chances of winning, and you win, it's nowhere near as satisfying as if your character struggled and still won in the end. Moreover, losing is just as good for character development - not just for your own character, but for everyone on the team. How will everybody react if one of their chasers is constantly dropping the quaffle? Are they sympathetic? Do they offer extra coaching? Does it annoy them? Do they yell at them, or subtly try to push them off the team? Everyone learns more about their own characters from the failures of the characters around them. Winning is nice, and all, but failing (or being overly-aggressive, or sabotaging the game, or whatever your character would do) is so much more interesting!!!

Which brings me to this point:

I've played Beater quite a few times, and one thing I've always thought would be quite fun is if there was a second option for Beaters, to choose a player to defend instead of hit, and lower that player's chance of being hit by a bludger from the other team. That way Beaters could choose a strategy between offensively going after the other team vs. defensively defending their own team. It could make the role more dynamic, and take away the element of gameplay where Beaters tend to just relentlessly hammer the Seeker until they go down.

I think part of the hammering-the-seekers issue stems from this same fear of letting the team down. In reality, it's unlikely the beaters would be able to aim every single shot at the seekers. Sometimes, they'd be on opposite sides of the pitch, or they'd have their bat in the wrong hand, or they'd be forced to target somebody else while defending a teammate. Maybe the beater has a personal grudge against someone on the other team, and would prefer to target them, even to the detriment of the game. Maybe they're so anxious about the game that they drop their bat or repeatedly hit their teammates.

If everyone is so afraid of letting the side down that they only try to win, the result is that every game looks very similar, and there are fewer opportunities for character growth. Thus springs up the desire for new buttons that allow for gameplay variation. But you can already vary the game however you like - and though some of these button ideas being presented are quite interesting, I worry people hope to rely on them to take away the feeling of OOC responsibility for IC deviation, when there was never (or should never) be any responsibility on them in the first place. Characters should act according to the situation, their personalities, and their feelings in the moment. Nobody ought to feel bad if this hurts the team's chance of success. Though more buttons could add to the fun, I do think staying true to your characters - and remembering that everybody benefits from getting to react to unexpected circumstances - will ultimately make for more dynamic games in the long run.

 

[Aine Thompson]

Weighing in (sorry) but I definitely agree that if there was a defend action for beater that would be excellent. I do understand it's difficult to implement and understand that it may not be possible but if it was it would I think offer a bit of RP variance too (and maybe limit the school's future liability for a class action law suit from concussed seekers ). I feel massively guilty whenever my poor claw beater hits anyone because he would play purely defensively. It just feels like you're letting the team down if you aren't doing something specifically?

I certainly agree with wanting to encourage RP of failure, personally I only use the other action button on chaser when I take the quaffle because of the feeling I need to be increasing stats or trying to win when I play (and sometimes the stats let me flop, sometimes not). I guess the main issue is that it would feel like it would need to be discussed by the whole team (and possibly both teams in a game as opposed to practice) to override the win at all costs mentality. It could be done it might just need everyone to agree for reassurance that they're not letting the team down. Like with the beater thing, I would use the other action button and hang back more if I felt like it was doing anything and could impact play (i.e. decreasing the seeker's chance of being hit).

But I definitely agree in principle, I think it's the type of thing that could benefit from more open discussion even if it's in team PMs or something, though it's also possibly something where the majority would need to be on the same page. I guess the main thing holding people back (like with duels) is that there isn't really a tangible reward for failure, and with Quidditch especially it also can feel like while you're benefiting your own RPs you're potentially messing up other people's. Good character moments don't win house cups after all

Which is to say that part's more of a social thing and I guess maybe speaking with the captains and plotting with the teams is probably the way to go there, but for the actual suggestion yes if more actions are at all possible to add RP choice and a little more encouragement to vary up what characters do I think that would be something to look into possibly. I get the argument that it should be the player not the button that decides things, it's just 'other action' can be a bit broad and does not tend to have a tangible impact on the gameplay flow, which feeds into the social side. Vicious cycle and not easily solved!

(I also want to point out that I do appreciate the hard work you do in putting on the games and things that have been done to improve them over time, it is a lot of work and we're all certainly thankful for it! I guess it's a bit of ensuring that players feel comfortable to flop without feeling like they're actively ruining everyone else's RP.)

 

[Monty Pendleton]

Don’t get me wrong, I like the defensive beater button idea and understand the benefit of it! I’m just thinking long term at the same time. If you add new buttons, you broaden your RP options by exactly that much. But it doesn’t address the root of the problem (fear of letting the side down) which seems to be discouraging people from RPing true to character in the first place, and so games will still only ever be as dynamic as the range of buttons, when they could be so much more.

I do disagree with needing to plot with the team/captain. This is my take on it: You, the RPer, are not responsible for your characters’ behaviour in a match, assuming it is consistent with their personality and development. You don’t need others’ permission to RP your character faithfully. That sets a precedent that it’s not okay to do anything other than [press winning action button] unless you clear it with everybody first, which would personally make me even more anxious about deviating from the current ‘socially acceptable’ gameplay.

If a character behaves in a way that disadvantages the team, it’s an IC problem for the captain to address and resolve - which could be a lot of fun and lead to new plots. It’s not an OOC problem and it never should be. Nobody should ever feel uncomfortable flopping (or causing trouble) if that’s true to character, and it makes me sad that this is considered to be ruining other people’s RPs when conflict and obstacles are the best way to promote character growth. Is a match fun because everybody was more or less successful and the game ended after 3 pages? Or is it fun because the chaser dropped the quaffle six times, the keeper got stuck in a hoop, the beater refused to hurt anybody and the seeker never even saw the snitch and had a breakdown?

Failing isn't just good for your character, it's good for everybody. It's fun to take part in, it's fun to read, and it helps everybody develop their characters. That's not to say everybody should start failing for the sake of it, of course but please, please don't be afraid if your character's behaviour seems to disadvantage the team. It doesn't matter. Write them as they are. Be prepared for IC repercussions if it's a serious issue, sure, but don't stress over OOC implications, because there are none. You can want to win while having your character screw up. It doesn't mean that you, the RPer, don't care about the team's success, and if anyone makes you feel bad about RPing your character true to themselves then they're gonna have a problem with me personally (jk.... unless )