Occupy Wall Street

[Nicolas King]

So - what are your thoughts on the current situation with the protests/occupation on Wall St. ?

Are any users in New York effected by them in any way? Or has anyone gone there to check it out for a bit?

I have admittedly been following it only since day one, and watching some of the videos of police brutality, reading some of the stories of media miscoverage (case in point is the NY-Times altering their description of the events of the march on Brooklyn Bridge when 700 were arrested) - my heart has literally been broken sometimes.
Of course, I am skeptical of some of the news coverage. Like one MSNBC news commentator was just railing on the police constantly like they were the worst people in the world, and that didn't sit right with me, either. But some of the incidences have been quite jarring and frightening. I was reading today about two reporters who were beaten/pepper-sprayed by police. Fox News reporters. Terrifying, I think.

As to the occupation itself, I respect what they're doing and hope the movement doesn't fade out before some sort of change actually happens. I can't imagine what that change could be, but I hope something does occur.
I also hope that the protesters gain more outright support from various levels of government. I was outraged when I read that NYC's mayor opposed the protests. Then I read recently that the only US senator supporting the protesters (note: this could have changed recently) was Senator Bernie Sanders. An independent.
Is it really only people without party ties who have the gall to support a movement of people, workers, unions, and the truly effected?

The protesters have impressed me. They're continuing to adhere to the rules of the land they're occupying (not erecting structures, etc. - no tents. Just tarps and blankets). Their form of self-governance is amazing. I was watching a bit of their General Assembly meeting, and while it seemed like a difficult process, being without a leader and making decision by consensus seems quite inspiring. (And the small systems they're using to ensure the assemblies work well, including "mic checks" where a speaker says things and the crowd echos so everybody at the meeting can undoubtedly hear, and the use of hand signals to show assent, dissent, wanting to speak on points of order, and wanting to block a motion (it is consensus based, remember ) are also most impressive to me.)

 

[Megara Bennett]

I understand that people are mad and everything but I don't understand what they can expect any sort of protest would earn them? Getting people out of debt is not something that is done so easily and sitting outside of Wall St. is hardly going to help that, is it? As for the police they are not doing a very good job at keeping peace. This will only get people more mad and in a country where people are allowed to bare arms it doesn't seem like a very good thing to pepper spray all willy-nilly, ya know? More and more things are just seeming like a police state to me and I really don't like what I'm seeing.​

 

[Nicolas King]

I understand that people are mad and everything but I don't understand what they can expect any sort of protest would earn them?​

What does protest ever do?
It expresses discontent and disagreement.
It isn't right, in my opinion (and the opinions of those protesting) that such a small percentage of the population owns such a large percentage of the wealth. 1% of Americans owning 50-60% of the wealth is the figure they throw around.
And it hasn't been a bad decade for the wealthy. The rich have gotten richer. They know how to play the game and have done so.
Why are the middle class in debt and going in to poverty? Because the banks and the upper class played their games successfully.

There is some responsibility to be taken here by those mega-funds that control so much sway (both in money and in the government) and I think the occupation appropriately puts the spotlight on those injustices.
The hope, obviously, is for change.

What did the people of Tunisia expect?
What did the people of Egypt expect?
What do the people of Greece expect?
Or the people of the UK or of France?
Each one of the above instances, protests are violent. In the first two great things were accomplished. In the latter three, maybe not so much.
This protest strives to be radically peaceful - and has been for the most part. It also strives to express civil unrest and use their right to protest peacefully. Something else they're doing, and something people of European nations do constantly. The riots in France over the retirement age changing - can you imagine people caring that much about politics? The riots in Greece about their economic strife. Getting a country out of bankruptcy is tough. That doesn't mean the Government should place the burden on the citizens. Or let the underlying issues go on.
That's what this is about, I think. There are underlying issues. People can climb out of their own debts again. The government can fix its deficit. But there are underlying flaws and areas where the country has fallen away from what it was meant to be, arguably, and I have respect for people who are willing to try to effect change for that.

 

[Danielle Zhefarovich]

My thoughts?
It's about time that something has happened! The whole situation with the economy has been a mess and the Government has done little to nothing to really help it out. The Government has been a giant dysfunction to begin with and people are so fed up with it. As a student with huge payments creeping up, I feel the stress that these people are feeling. It's a great feeling to know that people are speaking up and trying to make sure the stress is being heard.


I haven't kept tabs on it completely but from what I know It's been spreading around the country and stuff too because I heard something went on in Chicago the other day as well as some other places. I hadn't heard of this until you mentioned it here, but wow It kind of irks me off if honestly the only Senator supporting the protesters is Bernie Sanders. That really shows a lot about the Government if you ask me. The 700 arrested at Brooklyn Bridge thing was kind of a shock to hear about on the news too. But I think these people are going to stick it out.

I've heard interesting things as well like hundreds of protesters dressed as corporate zombies in white face paint went past the New York Stock Exchange with fistfuls of fake money and stuff. Found this picture on the interwebs. I thought it was an interesting approach. I don't live near NY and I haven't really thought of getting involved. Some of the classes at the University were trying to organize something but I haven't heard too much about it. If there was a chance that I could do something, I would. I really would. I can only hope that things do not break out of control or that something, if anything can change.

 

[Estrella Drage]

I'm excited for the movement and I hope it doesn't die out. Though I haven't been following too closely yet, I've watched some of Lee Camp's videos. I was really stoked yesterday when Occupy Wall St posters were put up at my university.

There's going to be a rally in Minneapolis tomorrow.

 

[Madlyn Ateara]

Protesting always makes a difference ! Good or bad, it makes history. (Examples like Dr. Martin Luther King !)
I haven't been reading much or watching the news, because now and days the news just makes me a bit angry and uneasy so this the first I read about it. Usually I'll read my news on yahoo (few articles here and there) but I haven't read anything about this, and it's great they are doing this but I hate when police gets to carried away. Especially when they get crazy with the pepper gun and stuff =/ So many lives could be lost, but that's how many make changes. Sad but true.

 

[Nicolas King]

There's going to be a rally in Minneapolis tomorrow.

Yes, I was going to ask about this, as well.
Is anybody planning on attending any local "occupy" events? Or know of any being planned in their area?

 

[Hadan Winters]

This is the first time I've heard it, and quite frankly, not surprised the police would get out of hand. Didn't something like this happen like a year ago where police got nuts on protesters? Can't remember.
I don't think anyone around here is going to bother with it, but wow is all I have to say. If there was something going on to support the peeps, then I would consider it if I was off work and stuff. Otherwise... *shrugs* Just pray that people don't get killed and stuff for standing up for what they believe in (peacefully).

 

[Kalani Mauven]

Maybe 'what' was the wrong word. How would protesting fix it? I get everything you are saying and as a person who has been in poverty for most of her life (we got out of it by playing that 'game') I know that it needs to be changed but in a nation that is so into capitalism and seems very Darwinistic how can a protest change that? It would mean changing everything that America is and was, wouldn't it? Or perhaps that is what the protesters want. I really don't know how protesting will fix the economy.

 

[Nicolas King]

My thoughts?
It's about time that something has happened!

This reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

Again about other Occupy events - I was reading about the similar occupy event in another city - it may have been Chicago - and the police there were being supportive of the protesters. Helping out sometimes. Being respectful, "Can you please stay behind this line? Thank you." - and the protesters responded in kind (asking officers if they needed anything etc.).

 

[Estrella Drage]

@Nick: I'm thinking about bussing over there after class to check it out.

@Alexis: We think we're capitalist, but really, we're fascist.

 

[Nicolas King]

Maybe 'what' was the wrong word. How would protesting fix it? I get everything you are saying and as a person who has been in poverty for most of her life (we got out of it by playing that 'game') I know that it needs to be changed but in a nation that is so into capitalism and seems very Darwinistic how can a protest change that? It would mean changing everything that America is and was, wouldn't it? Or perhaps that is what the protesters want. I really don't know how protesting will fix the economy.

Obviously the protest doesn't change that.
Protests don't change what's happening.
Protests increase pressure, attention - they make it obvious what the discontent is and how upset people are (if thousands are camping out and protesting - how many more must support the cause?). They create an atmosphere which encourages change.
Using the classic American ideological examples (and I am, admittedly, generally opposed to most things American... so this will pain me) - the Boston Tea Party was an act of civil unrest/disobedience. But it changed the course of the country (in a long, roundabout sort of way that kind of involved a war ). But it did bring attention to some serious issues.
Yes, the US is capitalist. And Darwinian. But there's also this (I would argue 'fallacy', but we'll say 'idea') idea of the "American Dream". That if you work hard, you can lead a good prosperous life - and if not for you, then for your children. (And something about Apple Pie, if I recall correctly.) And the fact is that isn't the tale anymore. And it hasn't been for a while. And for a country that defines itself for its dream (bring me your huddled masses etc.) - that's got to be an issue. And it is. And people know it.
So how do you fix it? Well, the people say enough's enough. That's this part. (That's what people all over have been doing for various reasons lately.)
The government hears and responds, hopefully. (In Egypt - the protests didn't remove the president from power. The pressure and his government realizing what needed to happen did.) In the US, that might mean tougher regulation. That might mean these strange trade taxes Occupy Wall Street is discussing. It could mean a lot of different things, or anything.

The protest doesn't change anything but the attention of the nation and its government. It increases the pressure and, ideally, a light goes on in some bureaucrat's head that something is changed.

Otherwise, French Revolution, anyone?

 

[Danielle Zhefarovich]

My thoughts?
It's about time that something has happened!

This reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dib2-HBsF08

Again about other Occupy events - I was reading about the similar occupy event in another city - it may have been Chicago - and the police there were being supportive of the protesters. Helping out sometimes. Being respectful, "Can you please stay behind this line? Thank you." - and the protesters responded in kind (asking officers if they needed anything etc.).

You know what, that's pretty much what it is too.

I might have been in Chicago then because it was supposedly very organized/peaceful or something! It makes me feel better than in some places the officers and the protesters have been respectful and mindful of one another. It gets really scary when things break out badly between both sides. I wonder where else these protests might break out too, I wonder if Detroit will get involved at any time if not already. I live close to there so...I don't know.

You know Nick, the first thing that came to mind when you mentioned the French Revolution is the use of the Guillotine.

 

[Nicolas King]

pepper gun

What I immediately thought of:

 

[Cyndi Kingsley]

Le sigh.

Okies...so here is my opinion on the Wall Street protests
(I'll probably have to finish this later as I have to run out to work soon)

Are any users in New York effected by them in any way? Or has anyone gone there to check it out for a bit?

Yes, and yes. I actually had to go downtown to the Wall Street area on Monday, and I found things to be much calmer than I thought it would be. The news is trying to portray the NYPD to be some evil bent on prohibiting free speech from occurring, but I didn't find that to be the case. I saw police officers engaging with protestors, and ensuring that they stayed in a designated area so as to allow the morning rush hour foot and car-traffic to pass through with as few difficulties as possible. NY is a huge city, but Wall Street is a very small area with a very big target (in terms of terrorism) so I can certainly understand the police and mayor being weary about protests occurring in this area.

My big issue with this protest especially, was the decided lack of knowledge about what they are protesting. Perhaps it is just the NY media coverage, but for the first few days when the reporters interviewed protesters, the protestors seemed to be speaking in circles about 'corporate greed' and I didn't get the sense that those being interviewed really understood what they were speaking about. Now, the protestors seem to have more of an idea of what they are protesting, which makes the protest sit easier with me. If they are going to disrupt my commute, they better at least know and be able to articulate what the heck they are protesting OR ensure that only people who have a clear understanding of the protest's goals are interviewed

I was outraged when I read that NYC's mayor opposed the protests.

Mayor Bloomberg (much like former NY mayors) is a strong supporter of the police force, and anything that makes their job more difficult or makes life difficult for commuters, is something that he will oppose. Mayor Bloomberg is all about trying to keep the city running smoothly, and I'm sure a protest does not fit neatly into those plans It's fairly understandable.

 

[Nicolas King]

My big issue with this protest especially, was the decided lack of knowledge about what they are protesting. Perhaps it is just the NY media coverage, but for the first few days when the reporters interviewed protesters, the protestors seemed to be speaking in circles about 'corporate greed' and I didn't get the sense that those being interviewed really understood what they were speaking about. Now, the protestors seem to have more of an idea of what they are protesting, which makes the protest sit easier with me. If they are going to disrupt my commute, they better at least know and be able to articulate what the heck they are protesting OR ensure that only people who have a clear understanding of the protest's goals are interviewed

I think that was the point.
"We know something's wrong, we don't know how we want it fixed."
I know something's wrong - but I don't have the solution.
So come together as a group of people concerned about the state of current affairs and discuss it.
That's a lot of what their General Assembly is doing. Working out what their goals are by that consensus process. What exactly are they looking for? What would content them enough to go home?
The protest didn't start with those ideas because then you have a set of ideas and you say "if you agree with these, join me" and you're not going to have a giant movement because everybody has their own thoughts.
If you just say, though, "if you don't like how things are and want things to change, join me and we'll try to work this out" I think that's a more open invitation for discussion in the midst of the protest. The protest, essentially, is about being displeased.
Is it the obligation of the citizenry/electorate to solve their own problems, or to convey what it is that is a problem? (Of course, being fairly liberal myself, I do think the government plays a large role in solving domestic problems. But Occupy Wall Street tries not to side to any one part of the political spectrum and I think even conservatives can agree that in some cases, like the economy and securing that "American dream" opportunity for its people - the government has responsibility.)

---

Mayor Bloomberg (much like former NY mayors) is a strong supporter of the police force, and anything that makes their job more difficult or makes life difficult for commuters, is something that he will oppose. Mayor Bloomberg is all about trying to keep the city running smoothly, and I'm sure a protest does not fit neatly into those plans It's fairly understandable.

I think supporting the police does not mean opposing peaceful protest.

 

[Estrella Drage]

So I checked out the protest today. The turnout was pretty good and people were very civil. Some dude gave me a political book slamming a governor we had a decade ago, which annoyed me just a bit. That former governor had shown up earlier to support the protesters and I'm kind of disappointed I missed him.

There was this corner where you could make your own signs. I would've made one, but I didn't stick around long enough to really use it. People were marching in a circle with their signs. It was really nice to see people of all ages there. This isn't just a thing for college kids that the elite can blow off.

The best sign I read was by an older guy. He'd written in black letters on cardboard that "Everyone matters." Out of all the messages I saw, it was definitely the most meaningful for me. The 99%'s lives and contributions are just as valuable as those of the 1%.

I didn't stick around for the rally, so I'm not sure how it turned out. The energy coming from the gathering was just great. I'm not so sure people will be able to stay overnight, though. There's supposed to be a storm.

 

[Nicolas King]

Boston's Mayor has said this about Occupy Boston:

“I understand they have freedom of speech and freedom of expression, but we have a city to manage. I’m open to suggestions, but civil disobedience will not be tolerated.”

I think he may be a bit confused. I think collective nonviolent civil disobedience has to be more than "tolerated".
The choice of the terminology "civil disobedience" was flawed in itself. You can be cooperative with law enforcement while being civilly disobedient. (Of course there's also a version where you aren't.) Mahatma Gandhi promoted civil disobedience in a time when violence reigned and I think that Boston's mayor is likely more amiable to civil disobedience, protests, than he realized - especially if the alternative is outright violence.
Additionally, the classical American example of civil disobedience is Martin Luther King, Jr. and his protests. I doubt that Boston's mayor would argue that what MLKJ did was intolerable.

 

[Patricia Styx]

There was just a protest out the front of my building, that was one long line and a lot of pissed off drivers

 

[Estrella Drage]

Update:

One protestor (a 32 year old woman) was arrested for trespassing. I have no idea where, though.

Yesterday, the overnighters started setting up tents, which they still haven't gotten permission from the city to do. They had set up a canvas for the people sleeping in the Government Plaza, but that doesn't do much to protect people from the weather here. It can get real nasty this time of year.

The protests so far have been nonviolent. We'll see if that changes as we get into the winter months.

 

[Nicolas King]

Apparently there was supposed to be an occupy event in my city, but I imagine it was a flop. I don't think there are enough people here to support a sustained protest like that.

I'm keeping read up on the NYC events, and it's pretty neat reading.

 

[Maddiie Holland]

Boston's Mayor has said this about Occupy Boston:

“I understand they have freedom of speech and freedom of expression, but we have a city to manage. I’m open to suggestions, but civil disobedience will not be tolerated.”

I think he may be a bit confused. I think collective nonviolent civil disobedience has to be more than "tolerated".
The choice of the terminology "civil disobedience" was flawed in itself. You can be cooperative with law enforcement while being civilly disobedient. (Of course there's also a version where you aren't.) Mahatma Gandhi promoted civil disobedience in a time when violence reigned and I think that Boston's mayor is likely more amiable to civil disobedience, protests, than he realized - especially if the alternative is outright violence.
Additionally, the classical American example of civil disobedience is Martin Luther King, Jr. and his protests. I doubt that Boston's mayor would argue that what MLKJ did was intolerable.

He's saying that because of the violence in Boston they have already, there's like someone dying from a gun shot everyday there, I know what he means. And on top of that money is wasted just for the police force to be out, don't be surprise if the the police starts to join the riot themselves. I really like Menino (last time I check he's been major for a long time) he's usually good handling situations, but since it's going world wide i don't think he will be able to do much.

I heard Puerto Rico rioting, now there I'm worried because police there are not that good. =/

 

[Olive Mayfield]

Popping in to say there have been Occupy protests in New Zealand (see here).
Other than that I don't really have much to say about it. If they think something will be done, good for them. And it's sweet that they're standing up for themselves and what they think is right.

 

[Nicolas King]

What are your guys' thoughts on went down in Oakland or whatever?
I read that people in Egypt were protesting at the American embassy there against what happened to those protesters.
I think that's a real statement of what our world has become - when the international community rallies to the plight of those being (arguably) oppressed in the United States.

 

[Siddalee Simon]

It's funny, reading this, because here in NZ, the protestors a) Haven't had much, if any, trouble with the police and b) one guy on the news talked about something like (I may be wrong here) protesting about the influence a corporate few in the banking system have over our economy and therefore over the majority of NZers. However, it seems that this isn't the only issue they're protesting - there's everything from world peace and eradicating child poverty to legalising cannabis. What my perspective is, having studied protests and movements and the politics of these things extensively in History (my teacher likes politics) is that unless they have one clear aim, their movement will ultimately fail. That's what has happened in the past - a politician or executive will do something which will placate some of the movement but not all of them, and they'll fall apart because some will be satisfied and others still malcontent. I admire their effort in wanting to change the world, but I think that unless they get some clearer aims and strategies for achieving these aims, they're going to be protesting for a long, long time.