Debate #3 - Economy

[Samuel Phillips]

The day of the third election debate, centered around the economy, had finally arrived. What was an area characterized by the hustle and bustle of shoppers now appeared ministerial in matching temperament with the seriousness of the day, Obsidian Harbour's usual ambience transformed under the banners hanging and podiums lined equally for each candidate on the cobblestone. Samuel stood patiently at his own adjacent podium, cue cards delicately inked with questions in one hand. The prospect of representing his own store in addition to other businesses in the face of the candidates was a welcomed opportunity for him. Being the last debate of the election, this would be the final means for the candidates to discuss their viewpoints and represent themselves accurately, and for people like Samuel, a final chance to construct opinions on the candidates for when voting began. Preparation for the debate had therefore been a long process on his part, wanting to organize questions that were relevant, and paint himself in a light that showed his knowledge and personal relevance in being there. In the end Samuel donned a lavish although modest suit with careful, precise thought behind it, feeling confident in the image he wanted to portray and in the questions he meticulously selected while reading over them one last time.

With each candidate in attendance at their allotted podiums, Samuel cleared his throat, raising his free hand to signify the debate was about to begin. He spoke his introduction after feeling certain the attention was on him, glancing to each candidate in the order their names were mentioned. "Good day everyone, and thank you for attending today's debate, be it as a spectator here in Obsidian Harbour or tuning in elsewhere in the country. With me I have each of the minister candidates; Alexander Cade, Ioan Finch, Claudia Holland, Dymetris Kozlov, and Cat Tannon, who will be discussing the topic of the economy. " The first question which was one of his own submissions, seemed an appropriate starting point to set the tone for the rest of the debate. Samuel jumped into it without an ounce of hesitation, knowing the time frame required him to question the candidates expeditiously. "We don't have much time today, and I'm sure all of us are eager to get this debate underway, so without further ado, here's your first question; With the current state of New Zealand's magical economy, do you have plans or policies towards expanding or changing the shopping districts? If so, how would these changes be implemented?" The subject of changes to the shopping districts was close to Samuel, and to many of the people in the audience, he was sure. He looked between the candidates curiously, waiting to see which of them would take initiative in answering. ​

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Out of Character:

This roleplay is open only to candidates, but you're encouraged to reply to the spectator topic here (if eligible). The debate is being broadcasted around the country as well, so you're welcome start your own topics to tune in on the radio and listen in elsewhere!

 

[Claudia Holland]

Claudia felt a little nervous about every debate, but this one especially. It was the last one before the election and her final chance to have her voice be heard on specific issues. She stood behind her podium, smiling at the spectators before giving her competition a smile as well. Over time, she had gotten used to their presence at these types of things. In a strange way, they were all in the same situation and could understand each other perfectly, even if they had different views on issues. Even though she and Ioan Finch had occasionally differed in opinion rather openly, she bore the man no ill will and she was actually curious to hear his views on today's debate. Economy was a completely different subject than anything else covered so far, and she knew it was important to many people in the wizarding community.

Mr. Phillips introduced them, and Claudia smiled and nodded when her name was mentioned. Surprisingly, the man then immediately launched into the first question. It seemed like not every debate was the same, though Claudia didn't mind the efficiency of the proceedings. Clearing her throat, she started to answer first. "Thank you, Mr. Phillips. That is a very interesting question to start us off with. I think change is progression, so it should never be stopped in places where it occurs naturally. But the current shopping areas of new Zealand's magical community are as varied and rich as its people. From my experience, any service or item one might need is offered and provided, with plenty of choice for every consumer. I would prefer to focus on supporting existing businesses and offering individuals the chance to break into the market, rather than focusing on larger expansion or big changes for any of the shopping areas." Claudia finished her statement with a nod to indicate she was done speaking, before looking over at the other candidates. She was curious to hear if anyone had bigger changes in mind than she did, as she was always open to hearing other ideas.

 

[Alexander Cade]

It was the final debate before the election and while Alexander wasn't exactly nervous he was very aware of the fact that it was his last chance to get his views across and show he was the right choice for minister of magic. The economy wasn't exactly an area he was strong in so it wasn't a debate he was confident in but he hoped he would be able to perform well nonetheless. Alexander was curious to hear the opinions of his opponents on the economical issues that would be brought up in the debate, he wondered if there would be as much difference in the opinions as there had been so far.

After a quick introduction from the debates moderator he was straight into the first question. This came as a surprise to Alexander but he listened to the question and began to formulate his response as Claudia Holland answered. Once the woman was finished it was Alexander's turn to answer. "Thank you Mrs Holland, I think as my opponent rightly said there is currently a good variety in the current retail establishments on offer and it is rare I need to travel beyond our community for something I need, that being said I think we could do more to encourage the establishment of specialist shops or establishments. I think a key to this is to make our retail spaces attractive all year round, I'm not the only one here who will have experience the buzz of Obsidian harbour during the school holidays or Brightstone during a student weekend, the streets are packed, the foot traffic is excellent for the local businesses but they don't get this boost all year round. We have seen the recent success of the careers fair which while providing school age children with an inside look at future careers also brings children and parents alike to Obsidian harbour which provides a boost to the pubs, restaurants and a favourite ice cream parlour of mine, wouldn't it be great if more events like this were to take place throughout the year to provide regular boosts of business to our storefronts? The challenge would be working with business owners to come up with events, festivals and the like that can engage the community and help grow our local businesses,"

 

[Ioan Finch]

Ioan couldn’t believe that the campaign season was almost to its end and that soon it would all come down to the citizens of New Zealand. Ioan was sure that he was doing enough to promote the progression of magic, which was the Scitorari’s goal. The man knew that, in spite of their lack of efforts in aiding his campaign, which did make some sense, he would have the Scitorari’s vote. He needed more than that, however. The man felt that he’d been doing enough with his campaign and these debates to show that he cared about wizards far more than he cared about the muggles that some of the other candidates seemed to care most about. So he entered the debate with some measure of confidence.
As a business man himself, Ioan expected to do well during this particular one.

Nodding his head as his name was called out, Ioan took a moment to compose himself. He listened to the first question, jotting down some key words so that he could stay on target with his reply. Claudia Holland, of course, jumped to answer the question first. He listened to her response, where she mentioned progression and then suggested anything but. It wasn’t a surprise to him. She’d been full of double talk all election, running for Minister of Magic and spending far more time discussing muggles than she had the wizards she hoped to lead. Alexander Cade was a more difficult candidate to gauge. He would surely not be good for the Scitorari, his stances firm in some areas that would impact the group. His reply, on the whole, was a good point and Ioan found himself nodding in agreement. As he turn came up, Ioan smiled and then began. “I must concede that Mr. Cade does make a good point about keeping traffic in the shop districts year round. I too think it’s important for New Zealand to continue progressing and growing and that includes our shopping districts. I would like to have a town hall once I’m Minister to allow the citizens to tell us what shops they believe they need and then work towards implementing those shops. More shops equals more jobs and more money. I would also like to make sure that all of the shops are accessible for all New Zealanders. We need to ensure that our citizens can access the shops in a variety of ways so that they are spending money and driving our economy in the direction it needs to go.”

 

[Samuel Phillips]

The approaches to the question varied greatly and Samuel was unsure what to make of each answer while glancing between the candidates, intently listening to every word. Claudia Holland discussed a more qualitative approach in supporting existing businesses rather than a larger ambition to expand. Alexander Cade mentioned implementation of events more frequently to boost shopping activity all year around, and Ioan Finch provided a surprising take on the question, accessibility in stores the only aspect of the man's answer Samuel resonated with. It was easy to point out flaws in the delivery of each answer, some aspects appearing as more of a red flag than others. Holland's brief statements showing a potential lack of insight, Cade's excessive referencing to himself cause for concern the man focused solely on his experiences instead of that of the wider wizarding community, and Finch's priority to the quantity of shops available despite both Holland and Cade stating their shopping needs were often already met with the shopping districts as they were was seemingly a double edged sword, and were prominent issues which immediately stood out to the shopkeeper. However Samuel kept these judgements to himself, understanding it wasn't in his place to point out any issues and instead only to question the candidates; leaving the individual to decide which answers were best.

Maintaining a neutral expression, Samuel allowed the candidates equal opportunity to discuss their perspectives and for their words to settle in. When he was certain the candidates had said their piece, he promptly moved forward to the next question. "Thank you, candidates, for your insights on expansion of the shopping districts. The subject of supporting businesses furthermore relates to this next question, which is a hybrid of two questions submitted by Desislav Z. & Finn U., Owners of Zuries, a one stop shop for all of your pranking needs, and Ruby Folsom of Honeydukes, respectively. What are your plans for helping young entrepreneurs looking to break into the business world, and what support would you offer to anyone interested in starting a business?" After checking his second cue card momentarily to ensure his pronunciation of the business owners' names were correct, Samuel returned his attention to the candidates. Supporting specifically young entrepreneurs breaking into in the business world, as well as general support to anyone with an interest to start a business was important, and he was eager to listen to what their answers would be. ​

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[Claudia Holland]

After Claudia finished speaking, she listened to Alexander Cade's response. She had to admit he had a good idea, and she nodded along as he spoke. Organizing more events would be effective. She herself had interpreted the question more as permanent change, but Cade's answer certainly suited as well. Her opinion of Ioan's answer was completely different, however. Claudia believed change was important to keep a society healthy and functioning, but only as it happened naturally. Forcing change for the sake of it was rarely a good idea in her mind, and it seemed like Ioan was suggesting just that. She wondered about the logistics of his idea. If you asked people what stores they wanted, how would you implement that? Force other people to open those stores and work in it? It seemed to her like perhaps he was trying to seem like he was listening to the people, rather than him offering a reasonable suggestion. His point about access was strange too. Claudia wasn't aware anyone was having trouble accessing any of their stores. With floo powder, apparition and the Knight Bus, she was fairly sure every witch or wizard had access to the stores they needed. Perhaps it would be more difficult for Squibs or young muggleborns living with their muggle parents, but Ioan didn't specify anything like that, so she couldn't be sure if that was what he meant.

Soon, Mr. Phillips was speaking again. The next question he posed was a difficult one, and Claudia took a moment to think on it. She did think it was important that young entrepreneurs got a chance, as fresh and new ideas were very much needed in their society in Claudia's opinion. It had been what she meant with her response for the first question, focusing on the individual rather than large changes, giving smaller businesses a chance to flourish. "I think it is vital to support new entrepreneurs looking to open new stores and expand on what our shopping districts offer. Anyone with a vision who wants to share their product with the community should get the chance to do so. As Minister, I would implement ways of accessible financial support, easily accessible with low interest rates. I also think it would be a good idea to offer courses for shopkeepers who are starting out. These people often have a passion for what they want to sell, but they don't always necessarily have the skills required right out of the gate." She paused to take a sip of water. "Running a store is not an easy task, it requires one to be in control of a great many things. Hogwarts is a wonderful school for the basic education of our young people, but the skills required to run a business aren't offered there. As a government, we should ensure that interested people can start learning these skills if they want to. A shopkeeper needs to be able to handle the financial aspect of running the store, as well as hiring shop assistants and handling paperwork and marketing. It's a complex set of skills that shouldn't be underestimated." She glanced over at Mr. Phillips with a small nod. "If the Ministry starts offering courses like the ones I'm suggesting, I think it would be the best idea to ask any willing experts that are currently running successful businesses to share their experience and knowledge in the form of a course of classes. Of course, this would be entirely optional to those interested, and they would be compensated." She stepped back slightly to indicate she had finished speaking, curious to hear what her competitors had to say on the subject.

 

[Ioan Finch]

Ioan listened to the next question, a smile crossing his face as he did. He jotted down the names, feeling it was important to acknowledge those shopkeepers specifically in his reply. Listening to Claudia's reply, Ioan could not hide the incredulous look on his face at how she began. Again, she was speaking out of both sides of her mouth, blatantly contradicting herself in his eyes. Moving to the podium, Ioan smiled again. "Thank you Misters Z and U and Ms. Folsom for your question. I struggle to understand how you can both believe that the shopping district has all the shops it needs and also believe that we need to support new entrepreneurs in openings new stores and expanding the shopping districts as Ms. Holland suggests of herself" he paused, allowing people to think back to her first reply themselves.

After a moment, Ioan continued. "I do believe strongly that we need to hear the views of our community as I mentioned previously and that includes creating a space for young, budding entrepreneurs like the Zuries owners to come and share their ideas and network with other like minded individuals and those from already established shops. I believe our chambers of commerce should establish monthly meetings for this purpose and would encourage the Ministry in sending a representative to these meetings to hear the needs expressed. We do need to support our new entrepreneurs and should help them by providing advice and encouragement, assisting them in creating a business plan to advance their ideas, not ours."

He paused, knowing he should wrap up but wanting to make sure the shopkeepers knew he was just like them. "I was you thirty years ago, a young entrepreneur. In some ways, I still am though certainly not young" he joked. "Physical shops work for some, but we also need to encourage and assist entrepreneurs to think outside of the box and not just rely on what others have done, we need to encourage innovation and listen to the ideas being brought up by the next generation, not stay stuck because we think we have some kind of expertise" he said pointedly. "You know what will help you succeed. As Minister, I will ensure the Ministry listens to you" he finished before stepping back.

 

[Claudia Holland]

As Claudia listened to Ioan, she was surprised to be addressed directly. It seemed like something about her message seemed contradictory to him. Either she hadn't expressed herself properly, or he had misunderstood. She decided to assume he wasn't asking questions in order to simply confuse her message, giving him the benefit of the doubt. "It appears my answer to the previous question wasn't entirely clear to you. Allow me to explain." She said, hoping to keep this brief so the debate could continue. "I said I personally had everything I needed at the current shopping districts, by which I meant to say that I don't think drastic changes coming from the Ministry are necessary. I do not think we need to start forcing new shops into existence just for the sake of change and the illusion of progress. I did not mean to imply no changes would ever be necessary again, nor that no new products would currently find a place in any of the shopping districts simply because all of my own needs are met. It was simply an example to highlight how, in my eyes, big and drastic changes aren't necessary. I don't believe we need to expand the shopping areas just for the sake of creating more shops, but I do believe in offering chances to any individual with a view and a will to go into business. I'd like to point out I did mention I would like to focus on both supporting existing business and offering new individuals the chance to break into the market. I simply expressed my belief in a more individual approach, rather than a mass expansion. I believe my second response is in line with this." With that, she nodded at Mr. Phillips. She wasn't going to apologize for taking up more of the debate time to answer, as there was still plenty of room for other candidates to respond. She had been addressed directly, and knew that any lack of clarity about her standpoints would not be good. In a way, she was grateful Ioan had pointed it out, because she'd had the chance to make her view more clear.

 

[Samuel Phillips]

Claudia Holland's point to provide education to entrepreneurs, allowing them to start the businesses they desired stood out to Samuel as he listened intently to her answer. Being self taught in his art endeavours while younger and later in his venture to take over scrivenshafts, he understood the difficulties a person could face breaking into the business world. Without the right information it was easy to fail and refuse to try again under the guize it was impossible, when in fact the opposite was true and business possibilities were endless with the correct approcach and knowledge. Samuel met the nod Claudia gave him in understanding, then moved his attention to Ioan Finch as the man chipped in with his own response. Samuel noted the man's similar aspect of education to help entrepreneurs achieve their goals, with a different means involving networking and innovation, although still a means equally as helpful. He nodded again as Ioan mentioned he was once a young entrepreneur in his own way, and was pleased that at least one of the candidates understood the question on a more personal level. It didn't surprise him when Claudia responded in kind to Ioan questioning her previous answers, as it was a debate after all, and he could admit it impressed him the woman was stepping up to clarify her words, showing her integrity.

Samuel matched Claudia's nod a second time, then looked between the candidates to confirm they were satisfied with their answers. When he was sure they were content he moved on to the third question, wanting to maintain the pace he had set. There were still a few questions ahead and the shopkeeper intended to include all of them, knowing they reflected what the wizarding community wanted to hear from their future minister. "Thank you again for your answers. This next question was also submitted by Ruby Folsom of Honeydukes, and asks; Do you feel that there should be age restrictions on students holding jobs?" Samuel had been curious to what answers this question would draw, knowing that thus far the ages of students that held jobs varied depending on where they worked. It would be interesting to see whether the candidates were content in leaving things the way they were, or if they wanted to see restrictions be put in place for these students.​

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[Claudia Holland]

Claudia generally tried not to let the other candidates get to her, but she was glad to have cleared up some confusion with Ioan. She didn't doubt he probably still found issue with her stance, but she was happy with what she said. Mr. Phillips moved on to the next question, another one submitted by the shopkeeper of Honeydukes. It was always nice to see someone so invested in the future, and Claudia couldn't help but wonder if the woman was one of the spectators to the debate. It seemed likely. The question itself gave her some pause, as she hadn't really considered this side of things yet. It was a bit of a surprise to her that there wasn't such an age limit in place already. After some consideration, she spoke. "I think this is a subject we need to approach with care. While we shouldn't expect too much of our children, and we definitely shouldn't put too much pressure on them, jobs are a good way to learn to be responsible in many different ways. Not only that, for some students the money they earn for themselves might be very important and necessary for a variety of reasons. I feel like working students should be at least thirteen years old, simply because I think younger children would have trouble with the responsibility, on top of still getting used to being students at Hogwarts." She hadn't really seen any students younger than that in stores yet, so she felt like it was already an unspoken rule, if it wasn't a law. Thinking of her own children, she couldn't see either Diana or Alice be responsible enough to hold a job in a store. Though she did often still see them as the little girls they were not too long ago. Diana was already thirteen, but Claudia still didn't think her ready. But some other children would be, as she was fairly certain some of that age had already found jobs around the shopping areas at that age. "Furthermore, I think it's up to individual shopkeepers to set a higher age limit when they seem fit. I heard Florean Fortescue's has that in place already, and in a store that works with only food items I think this is smart." She had known about this because Rose had expressed some interest in working there, only to find out she was too young to apply. That reminded her that the girl was probably old enough now. Maybe she should try applying again? Claudia mentally made note of this, though she knew she had to focus on her answer. "Places that serve alcohol should also have higher age limits and should not have young teenagers serving alcoholic drinks." She added. "I also think that for the younger working students we need to regulate how many hours they are working. It's good to experience working life, but too much can be stressful and taxing for younger students. It could also get in the way of their education at Hogwarts itself. A clear limit of hours should be put in place for each age."

 

[Ioan Finch]

Ioan still didn’t believe that Claudia had fully resolved his question, but he left it alone and hoped that if he happened to need extra time at some point during the debate, that the moderator would allow it. Her answer still made it seem that she didn’t see the value in allowing entrepreneurs to try and fail, to open shops and either find the will and merit to see them succeed or determine that business was simply not for them regardless of their ideas. Some people were simply idea people, and he felt that this was the normal ebb and flow of any community shopping district. Some shops were simply not going to succeed and others would be far more fruitful.

The man listened to the question, surprise that there weren’t already restrictions. He was still learning how things were run by the Ministry and the level of involvement that the Ministry had in certain areas. It had been an eye-opening experience for them, one he had been sharing in bits and pieces with his allies within the Scitorari. “Yes, I believe that age restrictions make sense. While we do want to help foster responsibility in children, we also need to make sure that they aren’t being taken advantage of and that they are able to handle the responsibilities they are taking on. My personal belief is that children should be allowed to be children and that school should be their primary responsibility” he stated. He had never pushed his children to take on summer jobs, though when she was older his daughter had volunteered for a time at St. Mungo’s where her mother worked.

“Their tuition at Hogwarts is already paid for by the Ministry and any additional costs for supplies should fall on their parents or guardians though I’d surely think the Ministry offers assistance in this regard as well. I know that they provide first years with most supplies already. If they don’t offer further assistance than this, I would encourage us to begin thinking about doing so. I know that some families have other needs, however, but in this case, I would encourage the shopkeepers to think responsibly about their hiring decisions. As Ms. Holland mentioned, places that serve alcohol should only hire students who are of age. Places that deal heavily in magic that could be used or abused, Ollivanders and the apothecaries, perhaps should also hire older students.” Ioan thought it was an odd question for a debate. There really was only one answer to this question, and anyone who felt contrary would be, and should be, rightfully called out.

 

[Samuel Phillips]

Both Claudia and Ioan's responses to the question were logical in different ways. Claudia suggesting places selling alcoholic beverages putting restrictions on the ages of students they hire, as well as restrictions generally on how many hours a student could work to ensure they're not distracted from their education was entirely justified. Ioan's point of stores such as the apothecaries and Ollivanders which heavily involved magic also hiring students of an older age was similarly justified. Though Samuel's own store was not too involved with magic, nor was it close enough to Hogwarts for his student aged assistants to work during the school year, only allowing them to work the hours convenient to them during the school holidays, he knew other stores were in different situations and locations, and understood the relevance of these proposed restrictions, nodding along to each point in quiet agreement.

When Samuel was sure the candidates made their points, he momentarily glanced to the clock that was nearby to check the time, then switched cue cards before moving forward. "Those are very justified and useful points that I'm sure many shopkeepers and other businesses who hire staff that are student aged will take into consideration. I would allow you to elaborate further, however we do not have much time left, so I pose to you these next questions. These were also submitted by Ruby Folsom of Honeydukes, and focus on other potential restrictions." He cleared his throat, then read the questions aloud. "What are your views on the ways we restrict and police those selling magical artifacts to muggles, would you tighten security in this area? and what are your views on the sale of Dark artifacts? Do you believe there should be tighter regulation, or should these objects be more freely available?" Samuel looked up from his cue card on the tail end of the question, glancing again to the candidates for their responses. The question was long winded, though when he initially saw the two questions separately it seemed logical to place them together as they focused on restrictions on the sale of certain items. He wondered what the candidates would make of them, and waited to see what they would say next.​

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[Cat Tannon]

Cat couldn't believe that it was finally the last debate. It had gone both so fast, and so slow, but she was glad the day was finally here. She knew this was her last opportunity to leave a lasting impression of what she believed in, and why she should be chosen. Cat knew she was running up against some very good contenders, and she had nothing but love and admiration for Claudia, but she was still going to give it her all. After everyone had their chance to reply to the first question, Cat took her turn. "I think there is always room for change and improvement. While I don't believe that a fast and sudden change will be in anyone's interest, slow improvements to help create foot traffic - as Mr Cade said - and more opportunities for local businesses and new growing business would need to be implemented. As Minister, I would put together a council for each district, where they can discuss and plan with shopkeepers on activities and ideas that would help grow the industry."
Listening to the answers to the next question, Cat nodded her head in agreement with a lot of what Claudia said. "I do also believe that everyone deserves a chance to pursue their dreams and what they believe the industry may need. However, not just any one can open a store and run it. In line with what Ms. Holland said - training would be a beneficial addition to give insight to those who have never run a store before. If one were to complete the training, then for the first few years of their business, their business would have tax incentives as well as a lower tax rate."
On hearing the answers about age restrictions, Cat was glad that they were all on the same page. "A minimum age requirement of 13 at least, should definitely be in place. I believe that the Shopkeepers have the right to raise that requirement as they see fit." Everything else had already been said.
Cat nodded her head, listening to the next question, trying to get it ordered properly in her head before she replied. "I do not believe that any magical artifacts should be sold to Muggles. So yes - security should be tighter in this area, as well as sales of Dark artifacts. They should not be freely available, and should be very heavily regulated - anyone who is wanting to purchase something dark should have to go through questioning and evaluation to prove that they are fit to have such an artifact, and a reason on why they should want it." Cat didn't care if that took out a bunch of voters who thought different - she definitely did not want just anyone to be able to purchase something like that.

 

[Alexander Cade]

Alexander listened to the responses of his fellow candidates and as usual found himself nodding along with Claudia's words. He turned his attention to the following question and waited as both Claudia and Ioan went before him and finally he was able to speak. "Expansion should never be shied away from and I think its the ministries duty to be open minded to all possible new business opportunities regardless of who brings them forward, that being said more can be done to encourage young people into the world of business and entrepreneurship. As already suggested by Mrs Holland education is a useful tool to not only educate young people about the possibilities and opportunities that come from running your own business but also to give them the necessary information to begin the journey and inevitably succeed in running a shop or other business and this is an area Hogwarts does not cover, rightly so but I do feel it should be covered in some form by the ministry, but ultimately we need to find the right balance between what the community want and need on top of the existing establishments and with the aspirations of budding shop owners,"

The next question brought up the idea of age restrictions for students working in shops. Alexander had mixed feelings as few of his younger family members who either had or still did work in nearby shops. "Generally speaking, no, I think the hiring of students and the ages which it is done so should be left to the discretion of the shop keepers, the shop keepers in general are better equip to know if working in their shop is appropriate for a student and what age it is so, I do not see a need to over regulate an area where there has thus far been little to no abuse, if reports of mistreated student shop keepers begin to surface than perhaps this is an issue that can be looked at further but I think for now no official restrictions are needed,"

The sale of dark magical objects to muggles felt more like a topic in Alexander's wheelhouse. It was something he felt strongly about and was happy when it was his turn to answer the question. "No magical artifact should ever fall into the hands of muggles, they are dangerous to the muggle in question but also a threat to the international statute of secrecy and I think the knowing sale of magical artifacts to muggles should be met with a life sentence in azkaban, I also agree with Miss Tannon that dark artifacts should be heavily regulated, one should not be able to walk into a shop and walk out with a dangerous magical artifact, I realise such regulations would be a pain to a relative of mine who has recently purchased Borgin and Burkes and while he might not agree with me I think it is better to inconvience a small number of collectors if it means protecting the population at large,"

 

[Claudia Holland]

Claudia listened as the other candidates replied to the question. Ioan had similar views to her own, though he brought up the good point about tighter restrictions should also be put in place for any place that dealt heavily in magic. She had to agree with that. She did think his comment about how additional costs should fall on the parents was a little naive. In a perfect world that would be the case, but she knew that wasn't be the reality for every single student right now. Taking away the ability to have a job would hinder some of them greatly, she was quite sure. She did agree that they had to offer further assistance in those cases, but that wasn't what was being discussed. Cat agreed with the age requirement she had put up, but Alexander Cade surprised her by being against any sort of age limit. Claudia shot him a surprised look. Thirteen was already quite young in her opinion, she would find it alarming to find any younger students working even short hours. Mistreatment of the students was by no means the only reason for being in favor of an age restriction, and she did feel like the other downsides had already been mentioned. It felt like he was glossing over those. Not to mention how dangerous it seemed to wait for bad things to happen to take action, rather than trying to prevent them from happening beforehand. Claudia had to comment on it quickly before focusing on the next questions. "Mr. Cade, just because there haven't been reports of such a thing, doesn't mean we don't have to consider the possibility. I personally believe in trying to prevent bad things from occurring, rather than waiting for them to occur to take action."

The next two questions were interesting, though Claudia immediately knew what her stance on both would be. She listened as Cat Tannon replied first, agreeing with her though wishing she would elaborate a bit more. Claudia thought Cat had good ideas, but they were often very general and broad and could use a bit more depth. Cade was very much on the same line, and Claudia couldn't really help agreeing with them both for the most part. But him mentioning anyone knowingly selling magical artifacts to muggles should have a life sentence in Azkaban seemed extreme to her. She thought that would be suitable for some cases where the intent of the magical artifact was to hurt or kill muggles, but for anything else she felt like a life sentence was a dangerous thing to throw around that lightly. She also wondered why Cade brought up that a relative of his had purchased Borgin and Burkes, while she didn't think that necessarily made them bad, she had the feeling some of the listeners might raise their eyebrows at such a statement. Honesty was good, but this simply didn't feel relevant to the question. "I agree with Miss Tannon about muggles receiving magical artifacts in any way, shape or form. This should be avoided at all costs. Not only would it threaten the statute of secrecy, it threatens the safety of the muggles in question. Even items that could be seen as harmless pranks should not be allowed into the hands of muggles, as using magic to make fun of muggles or attempt to harm them is reprehensible and irresponsible. But I have to comment on Mr. Cade's statement in this regard. I take this matter extremely seriously. As someone who works closely with muggles in the Muggle-Worthy Excuse Committee I have seen first hand what sort of damage exposure to magic can do in a muggle area. But saying every instance of selling magical artifacts to muggles should be met with a life sentence in Azkaban, no matter what the circumstance or what kind of item, seems extreme to me. It should be looked at on a case-by-case basis, and certainly punished harshly where needed, but I believe general statements about such punishments should not be made lightly." She paused to let that sink in a bit and then proceeded to answer the second question. "Like my fellow candidates, I believe Dark Artifacts should not be more freely available. These items are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. Keeping them restricted might not keep them entirely out of those hands, but it is still not advisable to make it easier. These items should only be distributed to someone if they have proof of a good reason to need these artifacts, and only once that person has been deemed safe to own such an item. The Ministry should also keep track of who owns these types of Dark artifacts so they can make sure they aren't being distributed to more dangerous individuals. Tightening security on this front seems like the best course of action." With that nod, she looked to Ioan. She was genuinely curious what his stance would be on either of these questions.

 

[Ioan Finch]

"There goes Ms. Holland thinking she's the only one who knows what is best and anyone who disagrees is wrong. I hope you're paying attention citizens of New Zealand" Ioan stated to the crowd. He rather agreed with Mr. Cade's belief that over regulation was not necessary or beneficial. "He is right. Over regulation on this non-issue is a mistake. Surely a Minister's time is better suited to dealing with problems that actually exist and developing plans that could go into action on imagined scenarios if needed? But to spend hours and dollars on problems that do not exist is a disservice to the wizarding community. We heard your reply, Ms. Holland. Let others have a turn" he said, getting annoyed at her needless interruptions. She had made her points and needed to allow others to do so. He noted that she only seemed to argue with the men, leaving Ms. Tannon alone. She was just as much a threat to the Minister position as anyone else though perhaps Claudia was arrogant enough to not think so. It was interesting to consider and he would do so more after the debate.

"On the subject of the restrictions Ms. Folsom brings up, I think it's naive of my fellow candidates to believe that additional restrictions will simply stop either of these things from happening. Restrictions simply push everything deeper underground where you won't even know its happening and these are two areas that are heavily regulated" he rolled his eyes. His usually calmer facade was fading as this debate wore on. The candidates were playing at being knowledgeable on business when they were Ministry officials through and through. That they believed regulations weren't already heavy was fact to that. Ms. Folsom ran a candy shop. so what did she truly know about this subject. " I'm sure Ms. Holland will step up in a moment to clarify her position in spite of having had her time to do so, so I'll be quick. In this regard, I think it takes more than restrictions on our part. It takes cooperation between the magical and muggle community to ensure that muggle artifacts are detected and prevented from getting in the wrong hands. This is part of why the Minister has a relationship with the Muggle Minister. And the Aurors and associated people simply need to do a better job. The appropriate restrictions are in place, I'll give Kingsley credit where it's due, and anything further will place undo strain on shopkeepers to be Seers as well in determining intent of the buyer. Some people are collectors and have no ill intent. Now if the shopkeepers aren't complying with the restrictions on dark artifacts or selling to muggles, that's another thing and should be met with harsh fines and possible jail time." The man paused and then decided he was finished.

 

[Claudia Holland]

Claudia's curiosity about Ioan's reply left as soon as he opened his mouth and started attacking her once again. She wondered at this point if he had some sort of personal grudge, since he only seemed to do this to her. He didn't seem to agree with Cade on the dark artifacts entirely either, but he didn't mention anything about it. Not as personally, at least. She raised her eyebrows when she implied she spoke so much it hindered the other candidates from speaking. If that had been the case, surely Mr. Phillips would have said something. She had bite her cheek to stop herself from laughing incredulously when he said she would once again step in to clarify her position. As if it wasn't him who kept twisting her words until she had to clarify and repeat things she said. She actually agreed with his statement about cooperation between the magical and muggle community, but it had been something she had been saying since the start, back then she couldn't remember him being very positive about this viewpoint of hers.

She made sure to look at Mr. Phillips as well as the other candidates to ensure none of them were about to speak, before she did so herself. "Well, Mr. Finch. It seems like we have very different definitions of what a debate entails if you blame me for clarifying or defending my points." She told him calmly. "I assume that if I speak out of turn, Mr. Phillips here will let me know. He has given every candidate ample time to reply to each question." She said, glancing over at the debate moderator who had been doing his job excellently. "In a debate, I am prepared to have my statements countered and... well, debated. If anything I say is unclear or misconstrued, I feel the need to clarify." She gave Ioan Finch a smile. She was fairly sure by now he was misconstruing her words on purpose in an twist them and make it seem like she was saying things she never said. This was the second time he had ignored part of what she had been saying to focus on something else. She had, in fact, said that making the rules stricter wouldn't keep dark artifacts out of the wrong hands entirely. But there was no reason to make it easier just because it wasn't a perfect system. And yet, he called her naive for believing it would end it completely. "I would have preferred to simply answer the questions, Mr. Finch, but it is you who keeps bringing up my words in a way that makes me think you... misunderstood. Perhaps, during the next election cycle, you should apply to be a debate moderator yourself. It seems like it would give you a sense of peace to be able to tell others when they should be quiet."

 

[Samuel Phillips]

Samuel nodded to each of the candidates' answers, seeing that they shared similar perspectives on restrictions of selling magical artifacts to muggles as well as the restriction of the sale of dark artifacts, despite some opinions about punishments being more extreme than others. One thing that surprised Samuel however about the responses was Ioan Finch's answer which again addressed Claudia Holland specifically more than once, and also had a more sympathetic view towards magical folk who 'collect' dark items. The candidates were in a debate after all, which would involve rebuttal in some form eventually, but witnessing such a back and forth between the two candidates was more intense than he expected although admittedly completely entertaining. If it were possible, Samuel would have let their debating continue especially when Claudia mentioned him directly and furthermore looked in his direction, although with the time allotted for the debate nearly over and with Claudia's answer leaving everyone's words at what seemed a fitting end point, he decided to close what was happening instead. "As interested as I am to see this continue, we do not have more time, so I would like to thank the candidates one final time for attending today and communicating to the wizarding community of New Zealand their different perspectives on the economy. I would also like to thank the spectators in attendance as well as anyone tuning in around the country." Samuel looked between the candidates as he spoke. "The economy is an important part of any community, and I hope the points of view articulated today will be taken into consideration when voting begins. This concludes today's debate." After speaking his last words Samuel waited for the dust to settle and reorganized his cue cards, content in seeing the debate concluded.​

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